I think the rhetoric that the Noble School policies are putting families in debt and on the streets, put forward by the VOICE coordinator is just a sad reminder of todays soundbite culture. While it makes for a good soundbite to mobilize public opinion, no facts in support were presented. Such hyperbole should be challenged by the moderator. Chicago tonight is a great forum for discussion of ideas and intellectual debate, and it should not be misused for non-fact based agenda being pedaled.

How is it that a cellphone is 4 demerits, but bullying is a minimum of 1 demerit?
Seems upside down.

I am tired of hearing from bleeding heart liberals wanting to "protect" students from real life scenarios in the school system. I recommend that ex US Military personnel can run a better esteemed academy than any present old school Chicago Teachers union. Create a system wide No Excuses esprit de corps of academic excellence and performance. If students are unwilling or unable to meet the standards of excellence, too bad. You're FIRED! Good Luck losers.

So Phil Ponce needs to learn how to interview young activist. The women representing VOYCE was articulate and clear. Mr. Ponce allowed the representative for Noble Schools gave us a speech not an interview. For Mr. Ponce to allow him to lecture us really is not the essence of interviewing. Also, what the person representing VOYCE was saying was that the purpose of discipline to is teach. Noble's policy of charging students for not following the rules, teaches that those with money have more freedom than those without money. It teaches our youth a lesson that I am sure Mayor Emanuel believes - rules have very little meaning for those with money. Shame on you Noble Schools!

Charters like Noble Street succeed only at the expense of neighborhood schools. How does this work? Many of these charters are selective in a sly kind of way. Noble Street has a reputation of being very strict, and this reputation will keep many kids from enrolling in the first place. Young people who do enter a Noble Street school may not stay, because some students (or their parents) may tire of the strict discipline code. So challenging students go to their neighborhood school, because the neighbor schools cannot keep them out or drive them out like a charter school can. Mayor 1% doesn't get this. That's why he always talks about scaling up models like Noble Street. The problem is that he can't scale this up, because the model only succeeds at the expense of other schools. If you scaled it up, it would lose its unique ability to select students by either deterring the entry of some or hastening the removal of others. It's pretty simple, and yet we see the Mayor promoting this snake oil.

Discipline is vital to any child's upbringing and I understand the point of both sides and certainly agree as well. I would also suggest that to reduce the 'debt' incurred by a child that a redemption merit would be put into place as well. If a child has incurred a debt for disciplinary problems, then he would be encouraged to redeem himself by any extra credit efforts or high grades he/she achieves from tests or semester report cards. Each 'A' or B's received would qualify for a certain amount of 'redemption credits' in order to relieve the burden the parents would have to pay. The child would be notified of how much he would have to 'redeem' to relieve his parents burden for his own behavior.

At five dollars a pop the kids must be eating an awful lot of flaming chips and chewing an awful lof of gum if this policy actually puts their parents in significant financial debt.

I am very pleased with the charter school initative and all the opportunities it offers students who would otherwise not be exposed. However, I do agree that the demerits that some students receive are way beyond diciplinary action and appear to be structured for monetary gain. If the students do not meet the performance standards families are expected to pay. I believe this is so unfair and is against the original intent of providing low income families with a quality education. Also, Also,if a student's top button is not buttoned they get a demerit. While this does not require a financial payment, it is unecessary and is a negative reflection on the student who may be a very good student with great potential. I don't think that this discipinary system will be viable in the long run and will discourage people to apply for these schools and would very much benefit from it.

This school is treating their "badly" behaved students as criminals, which means instead of teaching, teachers have become "police". Due to this policy the school has made $400,000 in the last two years. Why teach children to better themselves when teachers are forced to make hundreds of thousands of dollars for the school--leading them to job security and income (nice incentive) for themselves.

As a current student in a Noble Network high school, I honestly love the school and the environment. Although the rules were hard to follow at first, I learned to develop into them and I learned that the rules are easy to follow IF and only if you're willing to follow them. Right now I am currently a senior and I honestly feel like I am prepared to go to college. Why do I feel prepared? I feel prepared because the teachers, the staff, and the students helped me get to where I am today. I believe that if I was at any other school, I wouldn't be where I am today because Noble has taught me how to be responsible for myself and my actions. At Noble, you do not see student's disrespecting teachers, graffiti on the bathroom walls, gum on the floors, or student's wandering the hallways during class time, which is rather convenient. I feel safe at Noble. The difference between Noble network schools and other schools is that Noble enforces the rules. Many spectator's only see the 'bad' in Noble, but what about the average ACT composite scores? or the college acceptance percentages? what about the fact that Noble has been viewed as a strict, but respected school known to many of the top colleges in the United States? I am Chantelle and I am Pro-Noble.

Mr. Milkie is a liar.

I had to jump through so many hoops to obtain Noble's retention data. Once I obtained it, it had a mistake.

Regardless, the woman is correct in saying that roughly 40% of freshman do no make it to senior year.

This is data given to me by Noble. But no one seems to care.

I am a Noble Street Alum who is proud of his school. Recently in the news, it was made evident that Noble Street has a discipline policy which imposes a five dollar fee should a student receive a detention. This has always outraged many students and is now outraging Parents United for Responsible Education (PURE). This whole argument has gotten to be scandalous. Noble does not “prey” on students like a lion preys on a zebra waiting for it to make one wrong move. They simply catch what they can and let everything else go. Students who receive demerits are the ones who blatantly commit infractions. If students were being monitored at all times, then there would either be no results at all, good or bad, or Noble would have to be the richest of all charter schools having a teacher to student ratio of 1:1 so that students can be taught and monitored at the same time.
Students who receive these fees have interrupted a teacher, cursed, been late, been out of uniform, cheated or cut class. Of course this is a short list of violations that may have occurred. Noble claims that this is to teach students to be responsible for the consequences of their actions. In the “real world” if a person interrupts a meeting there can be consequences. If I curse my boss out, I risk being fired. If I am late, I get paid less, if I do it enough, I won't need to worry about my tardiness because I won't have a job to be tardy to. If I am not dressed properly, I risk being called attention to. I truly believe that this system when used properly works. How does Noble use it? Properly. How do students use it? However the student feels like it and that is why they end up paying ridiculous amounts of money for things that they should not have to. Be polite, be on time, dress how you should and if you want to tell some one to “eff” off, find a nice way to say it, like this letter.
Admittedly, there are some rules that can seem a little tough. For example, the food rules. Not the rules that prohibit you from eating in a class. Those rules are good because I do not want to hear a cow chewing behind me. The rules that can be changed are the rules that prohibit student from eating or drinking the foods or beverages of their choice. But if they do not get changed, I would understand. They do it because they care. Would your mother let you eat something that came off the ground? No. Noble cares for our health and that is why they have rules that are for our benefit.
Today, I am proudly support my school. They have done for me what no other school that I could have gone to would have done. They made me a responsible person. I know that if I am late to a class or miss a class I will pay. Not in money but in points because those minutes I missed equate to points on a test. I know that if I curse at someone, I will pay. Not in money but in respect because that person may lose respect for me. I know that if I cheat, I will pay. Not in money but in integrity because I may be expelled and won't be greeted with open arms by colleges. I know that if I eat unhealthily, I will pay. Not in money but in health because everything I put in my body is what I get out of it. I would also like it to be noted that the whole Noble team supported me and all of my peers in the pursuit of higher education. Today I attend Carleton College and am proud to say that this is because of Noble. And to the students who complain about the rules, believe it or not, you will be thankful for them someday.

Noble efforts change lives. Be Noble.
Andres Valle
PS This was posted by me on a facebook group made of students who support the school and their discipline.

I am a recent graduate of a campus of the Noble Charter System (Rauner College Prep), and I actually disagree with you. As a student/parent contract that they signed AT THE BEGINNING of the school year, each school year, it explicitly states what is expected out of each student AND parent. Should the scholar not obey they regulations the school set out, they will be issued demerits. Yes, an unbuttoned shirt or not eating chips will not directly correlate with a higher IQ or better grades, but it does promote PROFESSIONALISM and GOOD HEALTH. Plus, emphasizing the small things, as the campuses do, ensures that larger scale distractions such as completely ignoring the uniform code or littering of the school don't happen. Lastly, the school do not fine for single infractions. A student MUST accumulate 4 demerits within a 2 week span. Once they do accumulate those said demerits, they receive detentions which consist of a 3 hour stay on Fridays and a small $5 fee. The students are fed, AND allowed to do their homework or read a book. The ironic thing about it is that some students actually BRAG about their detentions and attend them with pride. This is not the school's fault. As a graduate of the school, I am honestly glad I went to that school which helped me stay focused on my school work and get ahead in life. I now attend DePauw University, which has been ranked the #50 best university in the United States, and am now pursuing a major in Biology without having to pay a single cent for tuition.

Rauner College Prep Alum 11'

Nobles rules actually works.
Take a look at Nobles success stories on Fabebook group BE NOBLE!

To me, two things stand out in these interviews. First, the weight of the demerit system. 4 demerits for chewing gum vs. 1 demerit for bullying? Which is the more serious offense? Second, if "bad" behavior earns a fine - and fines obviously add up pretty quickly - why can't a student barter good behavior to erase demerits? This would address two of the problems with the demerit-to-fine system: the appearance of Noble's profiting on the backs of economically stressed families, and promotion of "good" behavior by rewarding it, positive reinforcement rather than simply punishment.

Catherine,

First of all, it is a MINIMUM of 1 demerit for bullying. "Bullying" can occur various ways. It can range from a small push in the hallway to verbal harassment to various other things. It is always open to teacher interpretation, of which 1 demerit is very unlikely since they promote a safe community. The reason gum is an automatic 4 is because it's just there. You either have gum or you don't. Bullying has various degrees to which it can escalate. We actually, also, have a MERIT system for which the scholars are presented with. The teachers keep a look out for EVERYTHING, good and bad. The reason that demerits aren't taken away with good behavior is because, from first hand experience, the students are tricky and learn loop holes. What good would it be if they did something completely wrong, then behaved like an angel and exemplary scholar until the demerits are removed? It would do absolutely nothing to teach responsibility to the wrong doing students.

The Noble Network is truly a blessing. If it were not for Noble I would not be where I am today.It has instituted in the me the values I need to be successful. Because of Noble I have the discipline to sit in class, be respectful, ask questions, study, do my homework, and speak with my professors. Noble encouraged me to reach for the stars. It showed me that with hard work good things happen. It made me be a dedicated student. Not only did Noble educate me, but it educated my parents. Noble made my parents be involved in my education by making my mother aware of everything that happened. Because of this, my mother was also on me which motivated me to always try my best. Noble explains to parents what it is like when there students go away to college and helps everyone understand how to pay for college.They continue to help their alums which is something not every high school does. Noble encouraged me to go to a college that was far away because it would allow me to try something new. I can say that it was a great decision. I am doing well and am growing to be an independant and responsible young lady who is proud to say that I am a Latina from Chicago who is just as bright as any other person who attends Connecticut College. Because of Noble I will not be part of a statistic of students who drop out of high school or college. I will be part of the statistic that shows that it is possible to come from Noble, go to college and be a successful person. THANK YOU NOBLE ♥
-Priscilla Centeno,
a proud alumn of 2011

"Kevin Welner, director of the National Education Policy Center at the University of Colorado at Boulder, who has studied discipline issues, said the practice amounted to double taxation because parents already paid taxes to cover public school costs, including those associated with detention."

I, Jasmine Hernandez, am a 2011 graduate of a Noble Network High School, specifically Pritzker College Prep. The allegations that are made by Emma Tai are not true. To begin with, Noble Schools do not 'push out low scoring students out of the school'. If anything, the school does the complete opposite. I know many students who came in with ACT scores of 13, 14, etc and have graduated in the high 20's and that is because we are worked with by our teachers and other staff at the school. We are given practice ACT tests numerous of times throughout the four years being there. That is one reason why we are so successful: practice. The goal of the school is to take students that may not have an opportunity at the best education and give them what they need. The purpose is not to choose all of the 'smart', rich kids in Chicago areas so that they can steal their money. If that was the case, we would not be chosen by lottery as opposed to selective enrollment testing. They believe that every student should have the opportunity to receive a stable, safe, and meaningful education. Noble is basically being accused of everything that they are trying to stop that is happening within CPS schools: the smartest kids go to the 'best' schools. If you get a good score on a test, then you are accepted in. If not, then go to the nearest school that is oftentimes filled with violence, has a lack of discipline and students enter freshmen year with a certain ACT score and leave with just about the same number. I grew up a couple of blocks from where Pritzker is located at and the difference between Noble students and other CPS students is evident.
As for the detentions and the five dollars that follow, we receive demerits and detentions for things like chewing gum, eating hot chips and using cell phones because they are all things that students should not be focused on when in a learning environment. Mr. Milkie made the rule about hot chips to show students that there is a place and a time to do certain things and even more that instead of filling their bodies with junk food, try something that is way healthier and better for them. People should be happy that such a rule is enforced because it shows he truly cares for his students both inside and outside the class room. Sure, students are going to eat hot chips it’s inevitable, but why must it be on campus when one has already been shown what is expected out of them. It’s simply a matter of respect. Regarding Emma’s statement about students not having money for transportation and other things: first off, the money is not demanded right away to a point where we are all broke. Just as Mr. Milkie said there are accommodations that can be made for students. The charge is to make students mindful of what they are doing on a daily basis. In the end, no school is perfect and yes, we may loose students as time passes, but that does not mean that the rules should be adjusted so that everyone stays just because things are hard. The facts show the true success: 98% college acceptance rate. It’s no wonder parents still want their kids to go there. As said in the video, there is a ratio of 4 to 1 regarding parents who would want their children to attend. Just as Rahm Emmanuel said we should “not loose sight of a graduation rate, college attendance rate, and success rate that we would all marvel at if it was the standard of the entire system.” I ask: what will you rather have? A school that is filled with thriving students who are well on their way to graduating from a prestigious high school, attending college, know how to conduct themselves and are very educated individuals, or a school that has little discipline, with students that are satisfied because it is what is easiest at that moment.

I,Jamel D.Chambers, am indeed a noble network student. I attend Johnson college prep. I strongly feel that Johnson does everything in their power to help see students succeed. The teachers are more hands on, and they ,also, take time out of their day to stay after school to help students that are struggling.However, at the school i am attending, i feel that the staff and faculty members are abusing their authority. Staff at my school do not not hesitate one bit to issue any amount of demerits weather your right or wrong.I am a young man of integrity;when i am wrong, i take full responsibility for my actions. I now have 35 detentions. one more detention and i will be repeating the 9th grade level.I ,also, have made the honor every quarter since school started. I can ensure you that about half of my detentions were not earned due to my actions. I am targeted at my campus. I was recently involved in an incident where i was changing in the bathroom for track practice. As i exited the the men restroom, i was issued four demerits for being unescorted in the hallway. I calmly explained to the teacher whom issued me the demerits my situation, and i also informed her that my escort was my track teacher whom was standing in doorway of her classroom.However, that did not change much. she continued to walk away as i was speaking and to this very day those demerits are still on my record. I have been verbal assaulted numerous of times, and i handed the situation the correct way and was still issued demerits. I have been called out my name numerous of times; words of which i choose not to repeat.I literally have been told point blank to my face by a teacher that they didn't like me followed by a few other hurtful words. What the teachers feel to realize id that all of these discipline infractions are costing us money. In other words, these illogical demerits need to stop. I approximately have paid well over 600 dollars to my school for discipline which is ,indeed, insane.Although the teachers can often abuse their authority, they still get their job done on ensuring that all of their students meet academic requirements. Noble network is a great experience, and i have had a tremendous amount of fun attending Johnson college prep. I just pray ,for future preference, that other intelligent students aren't targeted or picked on by teachers. if so this come to pass,stand up and let your voice be heard. Advocate for yourself if no one else will.

I graduated from Noble, and I am really proud of it. I believe that Noble is one of the best schools in Chicago that allows students to be successfull, if and only if student's decide to take advantage of the opportunities Noble gives them. I had a couple of detentions in my freshman year, but throughout the years i was able to handle them and avoid them. By junior and senior year i probably had one detention and a couple of demerits, but ZERO detentions on my senior year. Parents have the responsibility to educate their children with manners and with responsibility. However, i dont see why parents are complaining about the rules Noble has, they new that noble is a strict school and they were suppose to expect DISCIPLINE. In this case if parents are not satisfy with the school they should just transfered them to another school and see if they get the same education and discipline like NOble does.I remember that parents and students singned a paper agreeing to follow the rules and expectations.Therefore, i dont see why they're complaining about it rite now! Aside from this, I am a proud alumni from Noble!

What is it, specifically, about the "flamin' hot" variety of chips?

We live in a society that wants to constantly compete. For that, we suffer. Why? Because obstacles are continually placed upon institutions that greatly determine our life chances and that keep the system of Capitalism in place. It's really sad and I doubt that students graduated without getting a single detention. I graduated from a bad school, but I did what I had to so that I could graduate with a 4.0 and be in the top ten (none of that means anything to me). Still, I got detentions and was suspended once for speaking my mind. The detentions I was given were not because I was being a bad student, it was because I was late. The "rules" see me as late, but in reality I was late because it was winter and my sister's car heater was broken. I forget my ID at home because my sister and her husband are arguing and I am still trying to get the highest marks possible, but I'm late to school so I get another detention. For what? It didn't teach me anything, but how messed up the system is. Detentions only serve the purpose of silencing students so that they cannot defend themselves. This right to make policies without the input of students shows that policy-makers only wish to move backwards. How about restorative justice? Let the students be heard!

I am one of the school’s first graduates and I was one of those kids who got all the Demerits and detentions ALL THE TIME.

Was I pissed while sitting in detention on a Saturday and having to pay $5 dollars out of my own pocket? YES!

Was I mad that I had to waste a Saturday in some room doing homework in silence? YES! But did that few hours of reading away from my loud crowded home help me out? DEFINITELY! I got to get away and study what I needed that I couldn’t do at home.

Most of the students who come to this school are looking for a better education in a system that is corrupt and unsuccessful in sending inner city youth into college. It gets me so mad that people are crying over $5.00 that could have been avoided to begin with. Many students do leave the school because their parents don’t care enough to help their kids realize their problems. Those same kids are the ones begging to come back a few months later.

Some parents are pissed off for having to pay these minor infractions because they would rather not be spending money on their children for a better more safe education. I mean why pay that when wells and Clemente are free? I’ll tell you why…..

I once was a student who didn’t care about college and just wanted to go into a school where I would not be bullied or forced into things I didn’t want to do. I just wanted to graduate and look for a job and be normal.

After my second year Noble gave me the chance to go away to UCLA for a few weeks to study screen writing. This is when my whole life changed.

I had just recently been kicked out my home and was out on the streets. Knowing of my situation my Advisor/Swim Coach/English Teacher (yeah he did all three) gave me money and took me to buy everything I needed for this trip. He saw something in me that I didn’t even see myself and he made sure I still went on this trip. It was my first time on a plane and my first time out of Chicago. It wasn’t until that summer in UCLA that I realized my full potential and why all these people have been pushing for the past two years. They saw that behind my negative exterior was this kid who could do so much with himself if he only had the push he needed.

To me that’s worth so much more than $5.00. This man showed me love that I wasn’t getting at home and he never asked me for a thing but to do my best and make him proud.

At this same time my counselor took me to a teen homeless shelter to get all that I needed to have a home… She took me to get my shots to make sure I wasn’t sick and she helped me figure everything out…She even helped me research colleges that would focus on the voice that I discovered while at this school…... Did she ever ask me or the school for a dime? No!

This school even gave us a class that focused on getting us into college. We wrote letters, applied to schools and for scholarships. All application fees were paid and so were all the trips to these colleges all over the U.S. I never thought I would step foot into a university but I did. Noble was the reason.

WOW,those $5 Dollars really paid off… I’m glad I walked to school those days!

Today I’m living in New York City working for one of the largest communications and media agencies in the world. I blame it all on Noble!

Who ever said subways $5 foot long was the best deal was a liar! My $5 went on my education.

I would pay the detention fees all over again!

My younger sister is now sophomore, and my brother will be a freshman next year. My mother is single and struggling still. Noble is helping get my sister a sponsor to pay for her uniforms and books the same way they did me. People need to stop looking at the negatives and focus on all that they are doing for these kids who are struggling through life.

Put $5 on it and shut up!

Flaming or Hot Chips: 4 Demerits... What if I had Breezy or Cold Chips (laughing hysterically). Oh, Bullying or Harassment only 1 demerit??? Didn't a kid just get killed in school for bullying; but for possessing "hot chips" you get a whole detention that cost $5? This is a very funny subject matter to say the least! I find it funny because just because alot of individuals do not approve of this demerit system does not mean that a student cannot be successful in life.

Yes, I am a former student of Noble who left the school after my freshman year. Why? Because I received the same Math Pre-Algebra text book that I used in the 7th grade. Why did I go to Noble? Although I had good grades upon entering high school, I was a horrible test taker in grade school. My state test scores were not good enough to gain acceptance at some of Chicago's top tier high schools such as Whitnet Young, Jones College Prep, Lane Tech, etc. I went to Noble and looked at it the same way as most would a junior college. All I had to do was keep my grades up. I left and went to a Public High School. I left to play on a much better sports team. I left so that I could take my talents elsewhere to be seen by college recruiter. Noble's rules were a bit too extreme for what I wanted to achieve educationally and sports wise. Curie prepped me very well for college and I now am a college grad and work for a the nations largest retail-drug store chain in America located in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. I blame Curie for all of this.

The reporter didn't attest to one of Michael Milkie's statements so he called the lady sitting next to him "Mrs. Milkie." Good one! Gotta love Journalism! It's a long and stressful stretch to get to lunch time as it is; I should be ale to get a snack between classes. There were days that I barely had bus fare, which at the time was probably a dollar to take the bus; two dollar to and from school each day, $10 a week for bus fare in a 37 week school year, $5 for a Saturday detention. I never had allowance or held a job while in high school. Noble may have some of good teachers who means well but I disapprove Noble's disciplinary policy.

Wednesday at JCP,I was involved in a incident where my track teacher showed the up most disrespect towards me. I attended office hours on this day to boast my grades a little higher before the quarter ends on this date. After I left office hours, I went to track practice.The assistant track coach ordered me to go home;I informed her that the head track coach instructed me to come to practice all this week because of our track meet this upcoming Saturday. she then said that if I didn't leave then I would be issued four demerits for loitering.I restated that I was instructed to come to practice. I was issued four demerits ,as she said I would, for "loitering" and was told again to leave. I began to walk away heading northward down the street; she followed me continuously issuing me demerits saying that I was moving to slow. My track coach called over to the assistant principal; he confronted me and told me to walk the other way (southward) and get off school grounds. I ,with no problem, follow his orders and begun to walk. shortly after I begun to walk away, one of my fellow scholars (whom is also a member of the track team) asked me a question. I quickly answered. The coach came to us and said " Jamel I told you to leave or you will get demerits I know you probably don't care because you already have to repeat the grade level". All of the kids around begun to ask me one after another was she for real and why do I have to repeat.I tried my best to ignore the moment because I was highly embarrassed.Then, she made another comment to the young lady whom I was speaking with "and why would you want to talk to be boy like that any way... he's a repeater". That right there hit home. I asked her " ARE YOU DATING ANYONE? DO YOU HAVE A RING ON YOUR FINGER? I DON'T THINK SO. YOUR SINGLE BECAUSE YOUR CREEPY AND I GUESS I AM SINGLE BECAUSE I AM A REPEATER". I know what a said was wrong, and I shouldn't have said it.However,a teacher or a person can only push you so far or provoke you so much before you speak your mind. As a result, I am suspended. What consequences will the staff member probably face? In my opinion, she will face none at all. She exposed confidential information, she probably will not face any consequences. I have no where to turn for support:My mother seems to believe everything that comes out of their mouths,The teachers cover for one another,and when you advocate for yourself (not in this case because what I said was wrong)you will lose. My only source of get my voice heard is through writing and sharing my opinion on websites such as this one.This is not the first issue where a student has reported that a teacher revealed their confidential information. It has been numerous of occasions where students were in my same shoes but didn't know to get their voice heard the right way.So yes, I am back again, and I will keep coming back. Until we have order in that school, I will continue to report every unfair incident that takes place at Johnson college prep. Parents we need you more now than every. step up a rally do something to change this.

*typo ever

I currently have a child/student enrolled in a noble charter school, I am moving from one side of town to another. I talked to someone at the school concerning a transfer from one noble school to another because my child does like the school and appreciate the push for her to succeed. I was told that I can not transfer her from one noble school to another one, being that I am moving and have no way to get her to and from school safetly if she stays, she would eventually be "pushed out" for either being late or not attending. I would like to know why can't A STUDENT transfer from one school to another, especially when they have never been in trouble and are academically on track. Why make them go to other less deserving schools? I find this very disappointing!!!!