As a product of the school system and a property owner I think having a a school fining students (families) for breaking rules is inappropriate. What they should focus on is why the rules are important. I say this because having a shirt button to the top never increased anyone IQ. And as a parent i dosay not send myhim child to schoolthe to makethe money for theyou school.

Also from my understanding the school budget should cover the cost of detention etc...

If the rewards are more learning, higher expectations, higher grad rates - all that lead to increased success in life - then a charter school should give unique consequences, like fines, a try.

Mayor Emmanuel has praised this school network's policies. If the mayor and the school board allowed neighborhood schools to fine families in regards to discipline and/or counsel them against attending that school because they find the discipline too tough, maybe neighborhood schools would show such results also.

As to being an open enrollment ... not like a neighborhood school. Noble is self selective, like magnet schools, because parents have to be invested enough to seek the school out. Neighborhood schools have to take everyone, invested parents or not.
Instead of giving neighborhood schools resources to deal with students who do not have the support structure to help them attend everyday with an attitude of learning, charters like Nobel are taking those students who do have this attitude and leaving neighborhood schools with those who no one else will take. It puts the neighborhood school in a no-win situation.

Noble schools are not selective, and parents don't always initiate the process. Some students come to information sessions, complete applications, and bring all the enrollment documents without their parents.

I don't like the idea of fines for children as an idea (and find it downright disgusting to hear that if the child/parents truly cannot pay then the school will work out a "payment plan").

What is most disturbing about this is the things they are levying fines for - in the name of getting the children ready for further education and life in general. An unbuttoned top button on a shirt does nothing to prepare for higher education or the real world or produce increased learning or better grades - when was the last time the Chicago police ticketed someone for a shirt with the top button undone or a college refused admission for that? Even if I was inclined to accept the idea of fines for school kids it would never be for such silly and useless stuff. If you are going to fine school children it has to be for significant things not ridiculous ones.

Taken on the whole as a set of rules for conduct, like SMART, what seems trivial in it's parts becomes part of the whole package. People who are successful and productive members of society, at all levels in life usually follow the basic rules of good conduct, character, discipline, adaption and skills application. In college and corporate America, mumbling bad gammar hunched over in your chair eating chips while your mom tells your boss/teacher you deserve a raise/better grade does not go over well. Self respect and personal responsibility are taught and earned in subtle ways.

I believe the mayor should have focused on the issue of the fines along with the praise he gave the school budget but in the news clips I he ignored the issue of fining the students and went on about the "results" the school produced.

Having read comments both for, and against the idea of fining students for perceived or alleged infractions of the school's rules, I believe the fines to be nothing more than an absurd sham employed to swindle the parents of the students.

The offending students will not be affected by (their) parents paying five dollar fines nor, for that matter, $140 fines.

Moreover, this disciplinary pardigm suggests that an inferior and incompetent teaching staff is employed by the Noble Charter School.

I recall quite vividly, as a student, those who were rowdy in Mrs Burns' English class would NEVER dare to act similarly in Miss Hill's Latin class!

The difference? Very simply, the latter, an excellent teacher who commanded respect!

I'm a senior at Rauner College Prep and have been there for all four years. I think the reason why Noble schools looked attractive to parents was because the students are way more disciplined and under control than most high schools. The only reason why I went to Rauner was because my social worker suggested this to me and that I would receive more individual attention in class when I needed help while I was in 8th grade.

Its important to not only be good academically for life but also socially. Through a series of rules Noble has attempted to make this happen such as no weapons, no drugs, you know the usual. Though some rules such as the buttons, are really ridiculous. Now at Rauner if your khaki pants are a shade too dark or light then its a serious problem with the teachers, especially the dean. I know that the teachers mean well by trying to discipline us but Noble has to redo some of their rules because it is a bit imposing on the students personal freedom. I understand banning pop and energy drinks because junk food and vending machines have always been talked about in schools all over the nation. But Hot chips? I understand that its important to have a balanced diet but if Noble is making all of the decisions for us in the form of demerits then how can we as individual students learn how to make good decisions all on our own once we are out of a Noble school? we would be so used to Noble making all of the decisions for us that some may not know how to handle it. Some of us students have to smuggle hot chips into school and risk eating hot chips and as I see this going on the only thing I could think about was the prohibition in U.S history when people tried to out law alcohol yet they smuggled it anyway.

I feel the pressure as a senior to do the best that I can to pass all of my classes because if not, then I have to pay money. I already used all of my money from my summer internship in order to pay for all of my school fees for this year. How can I come up with the money to pay for classes I have failed? I'm overly stressed every night and come home late from office hours and now it has taken a toll on my health, such as lack of sleep. I know that I have a bright future ahead of me and so does everyone else but its so hard to imagine it because right now some of us are struggling with " senioritis" and just trying to keep up with school work and pass the class. A lot of us have transferred to other schools and now we are close to about 100 students for the class of 2012.

Another thing about the culture and environment of going to a Noble school is the greeting system. first you make eye contact, shake hands, tell the visitor your name, tell them what is going on in class, and then ask if they would like to sit in. Noble claims that by using the greeting system, the students are learning how to communicate with others so when they graduate, they would already have lots of practice because of the greeting system. To us students, its just a way to impress people who may be potential donors of money. I hated this greeting system because I don't like approaching strangers and still don't after 4 years of this greeting practice but I do it because I have to. Its not like I don't know how to professionally talk to a person, whether I know them or not, but I feel because of the fact that most of us are a minority that we are being treated as if we don't have common sense hence the SMART rule. sit up straight, make eye contact, articulate, respond clearly, track the speaker... something like that. I don't really pay attention to all of this being SMART stuff because I already know how to act in class and do what is expected of me.

Often times when an 8th grader decides to spend the day at a Noble school, the students are pressured to show them how good they might have it if they went to a Noble school like Rauner. I have done this before with a female 8th grade student just wanting to see what it would be like to be in Rauner. She is now a sophomore or a Junior now at Rauner. when a parent wants thier child to go to a Noble school, of course the principle and teachers will try to brag about their achievements and try to convince them to enroll. Though if you really want an honest opinion ask the students them selves not the teachers. the teachers will tell you what they want to tell you and what you want to hear but the students, like myself, will tell you everything because we are actually experiencing the influence Noble has and have to actually go along with the rules they impose on us.

Another thing that has changed at Rauner is bathrooms for seniors. seniors can't go to the bathroom during class and if they really need to go to the bathroom, it will be 4 demerits because the teachers will refuse to call escort and being without an escort is automatic detention. As for us females that get our menstrual periods, it doesn't matter, we're not exempt from this rule. I have once witness a girl get her period in the middle of class and had to take a detention just so that she could go to the bathroom and change her pants. the whole point of this rule was so that when we go to college, we don't use the bathroom during class otherwise the professor would give us the evil eye, or look down on us because we can't seem to control our bowl movements. The worst part is that all of us female students were told to " plan accordingly" when it came to our period, as if we all have our period at the same time every month.

there are some good aspects to going to a Noble school, which is why they are popular to begin with but at the same time all of the bad things mask over the good .
One example is SDH ( Scholarship, Discipline, Honor) it is meant as " mandatory tutoring" for freshmen and sophomores that fail to do their homework or complete it properly. It takes place after school for 1 hour and the homework is given 50% credit. I have been in SDH both freshmen and sophomore year and never once was I given any help with the homework I failed to do. we were expected to sit there and be quite. if we missed SDH then it was a detention and you would still have to serve the SDH. SDH doesn't apply to juniors and seniors but if we don't do the homework its just a plain ZERO. unless you can work something out with the teacher of course.

I could go on ranting about being in a Noble school but I know its not just my opinion that matters, its everyone else as well.

My actual neighborhood is Chicago Lawn. From what I have seen in regards to todays youth; they are not being held responsible for their actions. If they parents know and the children, who go to these schools, know that there are consequences for breaking the rules then what is the issue. It is very simple: button your shirt, get rid of the gum before entering the school and if you have chips in your backpack make sure that they are not seen. If their choice is to break the rules then pay the consequences. Just as Mr Milke stated: Just don't do it. If parents don't like the rules of these schools then don't send your children there. Make the parents and children take responsiblity for their actions! Just as Mr Milke also stated: They sweat the small stuff. I believe by sweting the small stuff the big stuff may not happen.

Trying to state that by having the students pay fines for breaking the rules may lead to that student not having money for Lunch or Bus Fare is BULL! The students know that there are rules in place and if they choose to break them then they have to pay consequences. Nobody forced them to break the rules so if they don't have the money for Lunch or Bus Fare whose fault is that? The student who chose to break the rules and the parents for not making sure that their child understands that there are consequences for their actions. My parents taught me that there are consequences for breaking rules and if I chose to break them then OH WELL! If that meant I had to walk to school or go without Lunch then so be it.

"When African Slaves reached the Americas, the slaver ship crews prepared them for sale by washing, shaving all their body hair, and rubbing them with palm oil to disguise sores and wounds caused by conditions on board...The Slaves’ New World “Ordeal”—called Seasoning—was for the purpose of increasing their sale price. Once Slaves had gone through the Seasoning process this meant that, among other things, they had survived the first attack of New World diseases and were molded into productive Slaves by means of having been hardened to a strange climate; to the immunities of diseases, and to the indescribable severity of toil as plantation Slaves. Seasoning was similar to a prolonged and inhumane way of “breaking” horses." (Bailey, 2009)

When I hear about what Noble Street is doing to the students in that school and the lame justification the founder of the school gave on Chicago Tonight, I cannot help but being horrified. He argues that if they don't like it they could "just go to another school." I'm sorry! You CANNOT say that your schools is based on helping all students, and exclude them for behaviors that in most schools will be level 1 or level 2 infractions. What makes this more horrifying for me is that students of color have to be subjected to this type of discipline policy. I call it modern day "seasoning." (See definition above) The process that breaks the freedom, the power, and the will of the students to the point in which they MUST comply or not be eligible for "sale." There are countless neighborhood schools and school right outside the city that get the students to comply with a general set of rules that doesn't abiding by set of rules that most people would think are just ridiculous. At what point are the students allowed to think for themselves? At what point are students allowed to understand why once choice is better than another? At what point do students get to see themselves in the way they operate in high school? For Mr. Milke the only concern is discipline! This is shameful...its even more shameful that our mayor once again will take the data, construe it the way it wants to justify this treatment, while his students go to University of Chicago Lab School, which I am sure don't have the same policies are Noble Street! Its time to wake up Chicago! They are robbing our kids of a quality education everyday...and the higher ups are using data to get away with it.

This is noting but modern day seasoning. Period.

I was extremely disturbed by what I heard on Channel 11 about the Noble Street Charter School and the fines. I taught in the Chicago Public Schools for thirty-three years in some of the most challenging situations, and most of my students performed well on tests and knew or learned how to behave appropriately in the classroom. I took the time to teach thoughtful behavior, and I worked with the students and their parents to achieve many goals. I believe the purpose of education is to develop creative individuals who are able to function successfully in their lives, and to develop life-long learners who contribute positively to our society. I do not envision achieving those ends by imposing fines for trivial offenses. Learning appropriate behavior should be intrinsic, coming from within--not extrinsic, conforming because of outside pressures that will not always be present in their lives. Where is the real, long-lasting learning by imposing those fines?

As a current student in a Noble Network high school, I honestly love the school and the environment. Although the rules were hard to follow at first, I learned to develop into them and I learned that the rules are easy to follow IF and only if you're willing to follow them. Right now I am currently a senior and I honestly feel like I am prepared to go to college. Why do I feel prepared? I feel prepared because the teachers, the staff, and the students helped me get to where I am today. I believe that if I was at any other school, I wouldn't be where I am today because Noble has taught me how to be responsible for myself and my actions. At Noble, you do not see student's disrespecting teachers, graffiti on the bathroom walls, gum on the floors, or student's wandering the hallways during class time, which is rather convenient. I feel safe at Noble. The difference between Noble network schools and other schools is that Noble enforces the rules. Many spectator's only see the 'bad' in Noble, but what about the average ACT composite scores? or the college acceptance percentages? what about the fact that Noble has been viewed as a strict, but respected school known to many of the top colleges in the United States? I am Chantelle and I am Pro-Noble.

The problem is not the fines themselves. However, these fines are used to filter out the underachieving/trouble making students. If you rack up enough detentions or low grades, you will transfer.

This is done so that by the time the ACT rolls around, only the top students survive. The retention rates at these schools are low. The evidence is out there.

This is nothing new. There have been countless reporters constantly sharing these feelings. Substance News, Teachers Unions, and that "Be Noble, Be Corrupt" kid all have shared their experiences for years now.

I hope that the Noble students flooding these pages understand that this is not an attack on them or their teachers. I am disagreeing with the culture Noble is creating. They don't need to fine students. Instill real values in these students by other means.

After reading all the comments above, I could not help but to be inclined to respond. I would like to say that I appreciate the positive comments as well as the comments and opinions from the nay sayers (its is not your fault, for the lack of knowledge many of you posses based on this subject). With that being said I will not judge, for I know that many of you have formed your opinions based on what the media has decided to publicize; which is the comments and frustrations of the current students and parents of those students (who are mostly motivated by anger at this point) as well as the thoughts of the CEO, Mr. Milkie. The media has failed to publicize the result of what comes out of 'fining for the small stuff': Noble network Alumni.

Many people see the 'fines' and think immediately how proposterous it is, and I have seen words like downright disgusting, innapropriate, and horrifying being used about this subject. What is downright disgusting are things like animal cruelty, what is innapropriate is teacher harrasment on students, and what is horryfing are the massive numbers of teachers who claim that they are educators, yet they lack the skills and motivation to do their jobs in so many ways. This is where charter schools, like the network of Noble Street Charter schools, come into play.

From the get go, students and parents know what they are getting themselves into when they show interset and decide to be apart of the Noble community. Their is a strict discipline policy that is put into play that includes "sweating the small", best said by the CEO Milkie. As a Rauner Alum, one of the second schools that opened in 2006, I know what they mean by 'sweating the small stuff'. When I was a student, I will admit that I didn't agree with and rolled my eyes at some of the small stuff, like two buttons being buttoned up, and this is part of the reason PURE, parents united for responsible education, is protesting against Noble. I would like to mention that, yes, although mamy of these rules and the idea of fining students for a detention may seem unnecessary, there is a larger purpose. When the staff of Noble say that it is to prepare for succes, they mean it. Within corporate America and the job force, that many of Noble grads seek to be a part of, there are going to be times when one must conform to the, what one might deem as unecessary, rules and policies that are established by that specific company or ones boss. Whether or not it is necessary, we must practice discipline and self control in order to keep a job and succeed in the work environment. With that being said, in the Noble setting, it is as simple as follow the rules and you won't get a detention. Enforcing the small rules will reduce the motivation for students to break larger rules, and it should be parents responsibility as well to make sure that their student understands what is expected of them in and out of the school environment; parents should be working with the teachers to help their child become successful, not against them.

Not everyone has the same attitudes towards school and education when they walk through Noble doors as freshman, but I can assure that more than 80% of students will have different and more positive views about education and what it means to be successful, once they are seniors and are ready to walk across the stage and on their wat to becoming college freshman; I speak on behalf of many Noble network alumni who feel the same way. Overall, a student can attain one out of two or both, things from attending a Noble school, and that is a high quality education and or a more discplined attitude, demeanor and outlook on life. I say and/or because many students already appreciate education and have high test scores and appreciate what education can do for them, but many students that walk into Noble doors, don't know what it means to live a disciplened lifestyle. The staff and teachers of the Noble network have willingly taken the job of helping create disciplined lifestyles among the students. In order for the teachers to properly do their jobs and with ease, they must enforce certain rules, and the 'small stuff' is for the students' benefit.

With that being said, I hope this has shed some light on the subject and cleared up some misconceptions. My senior year at Rauner one of my favorite teachers, who tought AP Literature shared a quote with the class at the end of the year, and it was a quote by Abigail Adams that I feel addresses the topic. "Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence." Let Noble do their JOBS! SSSS

Everyone talks about it's great because of more discipline and maybe we won't have so many gang members on the streets or if parents would discipline there children they wouldn't have a problem but what people don't mention is the teachers who feel the power of these rules and how they can give these kids a demerit or detention because they can for the most ridiculous reason like going to the corner store where they've banned the students from because the kids made a mess in front of before school started and the owner was upset so the kids are banned from for a week and if they're caught in the store they receive a detention, what's worse is when the a student misses the memo that day because he didn't attend school and attends to school the next day and goes to the store and gets a detention for something he didn't know but to the staff he should have heard it from other students and it still sticks that's just abuse of the discipline ruling and that's just one example of what I've endured with my son who just ended up not caring because teachers cared more about what demerit to give and detention to hand out rather than building a relationship with all students not just straight A students. They seem to forget a lot of these kids are not silver spoon kids but kids who come from broken homes and lower income families also that building relationships with these kids can go a lot farther than trying to be there sargents. Thank God my son doesn't belong to a gang or do drugs but he made it to the last year and even went to prom but missed his first class of summer school discipline class and never made it on stage and missed it because he was at the college he chose to attend after graduation to pick his classes and confused his date of discipline class because he was finishing his summer classes and registering with college and overwhelmed himself and Rauner just wanted him to repeat the year which I couldn't afford and they suggested for him to go to public and in there system he has enough credits that they can't take him because he didn't complete them with them so he's stuck not able to go to college because he can't get his diploma. There isn't anything wrong with discipline it's just how you enforce or abuse it. My son is paying for there abuse of discipline.